let's brew the same batch and compare

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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:17 pm

here is what my version of the Alt looks like. I was suprised there was a hop bitterness, great almost nutty aroma munich malt definately there in the aroma. color was a nice dark amber. this has only been in the bottle 2 weeks so i think the malts will meld together better but it is very tastey in my opinion. great creamy head stayed about 15-20 min, and returned with a quick spin. i would call it a success, and i can't wait to try everyone elses.

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brewed my alt

Post  Shaggy on Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:55 am

I finally got around to getting that alt brewed.

I did a 90 min mash at 149 degrees, instead of a 152 deg mash for 60 min. I did this to help ensure that the sugar conversion was more complete being there are so many types of grains. My final runnings were at 1.018 little higher then I would like but 50-60min fly sparge was enough for me.

I also did a 30 min preboil to the wort before adding the hops in hopes to remove DMS from the brew. I was concerned that this would be an issue with the grains used. I got an OG of 1.058.

The rest of the brew was done according to recipe.

Now lagering at 55 degs.

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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:26 am

hell yeah, to me this is a success, three different clubs making the same beer! sweet.

bottled my alt last night. it finished at .011. the beer smelled and tasted great, but will be low in alochol. OG .040 finished .011 so i have an approximate ABV of 3.74. this is the lowest alcohol beer i have ever brewed, wish i would have mashed it a bit longer. color is dark copper in color, has a very malty aroma, even flat i was able to taste the hops, for a flat beer it seemed pretty balanced. i will have to try this again in the future to get those number right.
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brewing this saterday

Post  Shaggy on Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:46 pm

I'll be brewing up that altbier this Saterday. Sorry took me so long but been busy. Hope you all will still have beer left when we compare it.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Beer Dealer on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:00 pm

well with our hop schedule i dont think its going to be bitter like its supposed to...as i did not get that impression when i tasted it...but i guess we'll see.theres always a hop rocket..Jeff
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beer style guildlines for most any beer can be found on bjcp.org

Post  Shaggy on Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:48 am

http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style07.php here is the basic guildlines for an altbier if you want to get it to style.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:20 am

correct me if i am wrong but an alt should vary in color from amber to brown. i think mine is on the dark side of amber.

i will be bottling mine tonight.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Beer Dealer on Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:09 pm

well i transfered my alt to the kegs and finished at 1.015 and 1.016 for the w007 and the w1002// seemed darker than it should be but in the secondary it always looks dark...and i dont even know what its supposed to look like...tasted good...and should be ready to drink soon...now the secondary temps were at 64 degerees so i hope it was done...it did sit a while..Jeff
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Beer Dealer on Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:48 am

I doughed in at 120 and raised from there so maybe thats why my og was 049....i just transfered the beer on las thursday and it was still high but my ferment temps were closer to 60....no it should finish lower as i put it in 68 or so...Jeff
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:26 pm

i mashed higher than i think i would in the future, i mashed at 158 for 45 min. i think i would have extended the time on the mash and went with say 154ish

what did you mash at?
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  ryanjilek on Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:51 pm

Ok then I don't feel that bad. I should have done a little more research in mashing the Munich and Vienna. Since Munich was the base for this beer it may have benefited from some additional rests to get better conversion. If I remember correctly a protein rest at 122-124 is recommended for Munich... oh well too late now! Sometimes I feel like I should think a little before I brew.

Dennis, what temp did you mash at?

Jon, what did you get for an OG? Did you do a single saccrification rest? What temp?(s)
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:29 pm

mine was right a .040 og, so mine will bee the little beer that could i think! Smile should be easy to drink though.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  ryanjilek on Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:16 pm

My Alt is brewed and fermenting nicely at about 62 degrees on the basement floor. The actual temp in the fermenter is holding at 66 during very active fermentation. i.e. goo all over the floor! My efficiency didn't work out quite as well as I planned and only ended up with an OG of approximately 1.044 or about 60%. Basically I screwed up the mash. Since it was too cold for garage brewing I brewed in the basement and just ended up behind the 8 ball on the mash. It will be a good beer and within style but probably not quite as big as the rest of your brews.
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Alt

Post  Jon on Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:07 pm

My Alt is fermenting nicely in the basement at 60F - 62F using Wyeast 1007 German Ale. I have found 1007 to be a very clean ale yeast when fermented cool, almost like using a lager yeast.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:29 am

hope your brew sessions went well. shaggy was going to brew it have not heard if he did.

should i keg mine, then bottle with beer gun, just keg it, or bottle condition it? any opinions?
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Alt

Post  Jon on Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:10 pm

I will plan to brew the Alt on Sunday. Another batch of malt is dried down, so I will sieve the rootlets out and toast it tomorrow. That will put me at 16# of malt made so far this winter, with another 14# to go...
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  ryanjilek on Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:31 pm

Jon and I will be brewing up our versions of this beer this weekend. So far the yeast has swollen and the grain crushed. Flame on (for me) around 7:00 am tomorrow.

Are any other clubs participating in this brew? So far it looks like just Bismarck and Dickinson?

Ryan
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:09 am

just curious has anyone else tried to brew this yet?
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:55 pm

update,

well very little activity left, i have shacken to keep as much yeast in suspension as possible. i will crash and rack to secondary probably thursday night as long as the yeast has cleaned itself up to my liking. i will store for 3-4 weeks @ 50-54 degrees. then ready or not (it will be) i will bottle. i know this semi-lagering is not nessecary, but i will try it anyway it won't hurt it any. so i am hoping to have a taste of the finished product about feb 10th.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Beer Dealer on Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:11 pm

i normally add hops before the vigouris boil but was not paying attention and added when going good and had a boil over as i did 10 gallons and lots of hops went over board...so i did add another ounce...i hop not to much ..but maybe with it sitting more it will be good..as the hops will flavor down with age...so ya i should take the track camera and put it in the brew room and have online camera like we do for the races...good thought..and anybody wantign to pickup recipe just e-mail or pm so i can have it ready...seems i'm always busy when someone wants one made...Jeff
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:51 pm

i left WWnH about 12:30. with 3 full fermentors!

oh reminds me. jeff used your recipe (hop schedule) i used mine. so we already are screwing this up! Smile as for my butt i am fine i was sore the next morning, but no worries. i just saw a deal on brewtv.com hot scotchy, add a bit of scotch to your hot wort, not a scotch fan but i am going to try it both guys loved it.

update:

i am maintaning about 67 degrees on the fermentor, holy cows is this thing turbulate. i had my second kruzen beautiful creamy light tan color. much more beautiful than first with hops sitting on top. but looks like a tornadeo in the bottle, wife even commented how active it is. but i have not needed a blow of tube yet. i love the color, my bride is very excited to try it as well.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  ryanjilek on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:42 pm

Sounds like we may need to have Jeff invest in a game camera for the brewing room there! Could provide some good entertainment!

Hopefully the rump injury wasn't anything a couple pints wouldn't cure? Of course you'd have another couple to drown the sorrows of the bucket loss... well then there was the issues with the kids that got you there late... hmm.. did you even make it home that night!? :drunk:
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:37 pm

you are so right there should be pictures. (only pics i took were of the hop bag) well jeff has the grains i am sure he can kit some up for anyone interested.

some one should have been there when i slipped and busted my rump on the ice (carrying bucket of water) water went everywhere busted the bucket.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  ryanjilek on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:29 pm

BTW, where are the pictures!!
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  ryanjilek on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:29 pm

Ok so now the rest of us are definitely playing catch up! Cool that you guys have two batches in the fermenter already. I think one thing that we need to do with this project especially is keep really good notes to compare as we evaluate the different individuals' brew. That way if someone really nailed it we have a process to compare it with as well as find out flaws in those of us who may have not nailed it! ;0

Jeff, will you be doing any kitting of this recipe for us?? All grain and/or extract? That would really make it easier for some of us that do not have the specialty grains on hand and would have to order at least a pound to get the quantities needed. Just a thought.

Ryan
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:06 am

i got there at 3 pm, all i will say is 3 KIDS!


jeff had his gravities right on, mine are a bit low. i had a good starter going for both of them, so i expect a good fermentation.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Beer Dealer on Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:02 pm

well dennis and i were suppose to brew today but he must have had to much last nite ...he didnt show and no answer ...ummm...i hope hes alright...and i cant continue as he has the stuff i need,,,,,Jeff
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:20 pm

i like it, i just wanted to get folks thinking. it needs to be the second weekend in march for me (guard drill ya know).

this will also allow anyone who chooses to Lager it a bit the ability to do so. thanks for the input, keep it coming!
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  randi philleo on Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:15 pm

Why such a rush?

Personally, I think it would be nice to give everyone the month of January to brew, then do a meet up early March. That gives us some time to get feed back on the recipe and gather ingredients before proceeding.

Plus, with all the traveling over the holidays, we need to be sure we maximize our participation of this brew.

Thoughts?

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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Beer Dealer on Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:49 am

without knowing which yeast was going to be used i only ordered 4 of the 1007 ale yeast...so if there is more than 4 we will have to make starters and share...Jeff
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:58 am

i think it might be to late for one of randi's handy vote things.

i think we have agreed on doing an Alt next time we will have randi give us a vote counter! cali common on there for me please:)

are we all cool with this recipe? i say we give everyone 3 weeks to brew this (holidays might be tough should we say 4?) add 4 weeks for everyone to have fermentation complete. lets say we hook up some where the second weekend in february. fargo and dickenson seem interested, so meet in the middle for the first brew and agree on the next location then.

it is up to jeff but WWnH would be a great place, and i have to speak to our pres. mike if we could use the club house. could even set up a brew for that day.

any questions problems or suggestions please post them.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:22 am

thank you very much for bringing it up! i get sooooo excited sometimes i miss the details sometimes. it was awesome of you to point that out. (lets us get all extract brewers to try a partial mash right? Laughing )

after doing some more research steaping would add very little as far as what you want from that grain. you will have to leave it out or partial mash it!

come, on brew with us, even if you just join us at jeff's i think it should be fun, we are hoping to brew sunday (if my grains get here!) i have a lot to brew, working on a premium american lager (start out a light, then a standard and now well) doing 10 gallons to hand out to all my swill drinking friends! perfect for spring fishing! and i want to do this alt, depending on the grains.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Tyler on Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:08 pm

Like I said, I'm unsure about the actual flavor contribution as a steeped grain. I just knew that it's ideally a mashed grain and wanted to offer a word of warning.

I don't know how it'll behave if it's steeped. If someone has used it in a steeping-grain application and can attest to it's usefulness in that situation then I wouldn't have a problem using it.

To be honest, I'm not going to be able to brew this beer with you guys anyway so I'm not too worried about what you guys end up doing. I just wanted to offer a bit of potential warning.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Beer Dealer on Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:00 pm


i dont see any reason that an extract brewer cant mash one pound of grain do you?? i mean your normall 12 qt pot every one has at home can mash that grain...just a thought..Jeff

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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  ryanjilek on Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:59 pm

As a stepping grain it would be used just for flavor and did not contribute to the overall OG in ProMash. As it is a pound may be more than necessary for a simple flavor addition.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Tyler on Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:37 pm

It would probably just give a bunch of unfermentable starches that may or may not have a positive flavor impact.

It's only 4-ish SRM and is a base malt. I imagine it's non-mashed flavor impact would be similar to just steeping any other base malt like 2-row, Maris Otter, or Munich.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:52 am

you are probably right, but it will have to either be a variable or we tweek the recipe back to the original with out it.

would steeping vienna malt help it at all? i know it is a high temp malt but wouldn't steeping it give something to the beer?
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Tyler on Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:12 am

I might be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that Vienna has to be mashed (putting the extract brewers out in the cold).

Of course, they could do a partial mash but that's perhaps off-putting to some.
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:10 am

i will order a 10 or 20 lb bag of cara Munich if folks want to go in on it with me. Need to know today to get it here by this weekend though. carafa II special is already on the way.

Ryan, i am showing 29.2 IBU's which is only 2.4 above the minimum. If you think it will be out of style we can change it. i knew hops are supposed to be a background which is why i did a 15 min and not 5 or 3 min. We could back then up to 20 or thirty, but then it increases the bittering.

For my first Alt i would be happy with this, but will concede to experience.

Awesome job with the extract recipe.

Again Ryan, i think that is it. we give the recipe, and the brewer can do what is available or comfortable to them with that recipe. it will allow for comparison, and better discussion (IMO). i bet money you will be able to taste the difference between Jeff’s and mine and we will be brewing right next to each other. Hops alone, i use a hop bag he doesn't he has better control on mash temps and he chooses to dough in, then heat up from there. All these little things in the end i believe will make a difference.

Love the name ND Brewers Alt, if it tastes great we will need an artist to create us a label

thanks again to all for the help
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  ryanjilek on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:20 pm

Good Jeff. CaraMunich is different from regular caramel/crystal in that it is caramelized munich malt rather than standard 2-row. It would be maltier and carry some of the biscuit that the munich malt has.

Here is what ProMash came up with for the recipe:

Code:
ND Brewers Collaborative Alt

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal):        5.50    Wort Size (Gal):    5.50
Total Grain (Lbs):        9.63
Anticipated OG:          1.046    Plato:            11.32
Anticipated SRM:          18.2
Anticipated IBU:          32.7
Brewhouse Efficiency:      70 %
Wort Boil Time:            60    Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

  %    Amount    Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 77.9    7.50 lbs. Munich Malt                  Belgium        1.038      8
 10.4    1.00 lbs. CaraMunich Malt              Belgium        1.033    75
 10.4    1.00 lbs. Vienna Malt                  America        1.035      4
  1.3    0.13 lbs. Weyermann Carafa Special II  Germany        1.036    558

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

  Amount    Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0.50 oz.    Spalter                          Pellet  4.50  10.1  60 min.
  1.00 oz.    Tettnanger Tettnang              Pellet  4.50  20.1  60 min.
  0.50 oz.    Spalter                          Whole    4.50  2.4  15 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1007 German Ale

For the extract side it could be as easy as replacing the 7.5 lbs of Munich with 6 lbs of Munich Liquid Malt Extract. Would be +/- 0.001 of the all grain OG depending on the extract used. However, in that case you'd have 2 lbs - 2 oz of specialty grains which may be a bit much.... Any thoughts??
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Beer Dealer on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:10 pm

good for everthing except carafa...and i believe cara munich is just a trade mark mname for crystal correct...then we would use crystal 20 or 40 or 60...and have hops..but willneed to order the yeast i beleve
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  ryanjilek on Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:42 pm

Dennis, I'm cool with that recipe. Since Alt typically has very little to no hop aroma or taste, it may be worth removing or re-arranging the hops to get by with 2 oz of hops total. Either take out the quarter oz late addition or 'borrow' some from the bittering addition. I didn't run the IBU numbers yet but that would play a factor in where to adjust. I do like the Munich base and the malt bill in general. I can just about taste that malt bill! :fill dark:

We are going to basically post a 'kitted' recipe here and then everyone will use the same ingredients (with the exception of extract and base malt) and we'll determine what the variances in the individuals process can play in the finished product, correct? We will need to run the numbers and come up with a suitable extract version as well. I'll try and do so in ProMash tonight unless someone else beats me to it.

(Jeff, how are you sitting on stock for these malts and hops??)
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:39 pm

to all mashers, i ordered 2 lbs of Carafa II special if you need some
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:55 pm

sounds good to me jeff, i plan to brew my american lager starting around 1-1:30 then this one, if everyone is in agreement.

Wyermann Carafa II special (de husked)
German roasted malt, comparable to roasted barley. Gives a deeper aroma and color for dark beers. Recommended malt for any dark beer including, Bock, Altbier, Stout, Porter, and Schwartzbier.

closest i found in briess is Blackpinz or just roasted barley
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Beer Dealer on Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:50 pm

whats carafa ll ...i dont have that..
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recipe

Post  dkwandt on Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:40 pm

please give your suggestions for any changes, all interested parties please chime in!

7.5 lbs munich
1 lbs caramunich
1 lbs vienna
.13 carafa II

.5 oz spalter 60 min
1 oz tettnang 60 min

.25 oz tettnang 15 min
.5 oz spaler 15 min

wyeast 1007 or WLP036

finnings, this is up to you, he uses gelatin into his secondary for 2 weeks you could add what ever you want, as i have never used gelitine, i am going to give it a shot.

water he gives a detailed water bill, as for me because it is light in color, i will good half distilled water half tap.

Variables:

yeast starter, you decide (i will being using a stir plate)
Mash you decide decoction, or what ever you have available
sparge use what method your are comfortable with.
primary and secondary fermentations, you decide what works best for you.


below are the requirements i come up with for a 5.5 gallon batch. i will be using a 2 step recirculating mash.

mash in 3.01 gallon @ 174.9 degrees for 2 min
hold 158 degrees for 45 min
mash out 1.2 gallon 198.3 degrees 2 mi
hold mash 168 degrees for 10 min

i have a boil volume 7.2 gal

preboil gravity 1.039
OG 1.046
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  randi philleo on Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:33 pm

I agree, skip the decoction.

As for hops, I'd like to throw Tettnang and Saaz into the race.


BYO Article on brewing Altbier

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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  dkwandt on Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:01 pm

i am all for it one thing i would probably change is i would do a 90 min boil with all that munich. Skip decoction (some may choose to do it, great for comparison) how can we change the bill to make it ours? i am always up for adding either vienna, or even marris otter. the color of that beer makes me very thirsty! any idea for hops, maybe a later addition?

calling all beer nerds!!!!

i can do an all grain with amounts, but need help with the extract version! will post an an all grain version ASAP
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  randi philleo on Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:43 pm

I've been looking around a bit at some recipes. This one seems relatively basic, and true to style.

Kaiser Alt

There seemed to be a lot of chatter pointing to this recipe from a lot of places. It was developed based on Guidelines for brewing Altbier from a German brewing text book.

Now, I'm not one for taking recipes verbatim. So maybe we could take a recipe like this and tweak it to our needs? Just a thought and maybe a starting point.

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randi philleo
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

Post  Beer Dealer on Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:04 pm

i have not done an Alt so i am game for that..ll
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Beer Dealer
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Re: let's brew the same batch and compare

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